‘Pak epicentre of terror, causing suffering to India, world’
* PM favours dialogue over discord with China
New Delhi, Mar 16: Prime Minister Narendra Modi on Sunday said that every attempt to foster peace with Pakistan was met with hostility and betrayal and hoped that wisdom would prevail on the leadership in Islamabad to improve bilateral ties.
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In an interaction with US-based popular podcaster and computer scientist Lex Fridman, Modi recalled that he had specially invited his Pakistan counterpart Nawaz Sharif for his swearing-in ceremony in 2014 with the hope that the two countries could turn a new leaf.
“Yet, every noble attempt at fostering peace was met with hostility and betrayal. We sincerely hope that wisdom prevails upon them and they choose the path of peace,” the Prime Minister said.
Modi said he believed that even the people of Pakistan long for peace because they also must be tired of living in strife, unrest and relentless terror where even innocent children are killed and countless lives are destroyed.
The prime minister said his first attempt at improving bilateral relations was a gesture of goodwill.
“It was a diplomatic gesture unlike any in decades. The very people who once questioned my approach to foreign policy were taken aback when they learned I had invited all SAARC heads of state and our then President Pranab Mukherjee beautifully captured that historic gesture in his memoir,” Modi said.
“This was a testament to how clear and confident India’s foreign policy had become. This sent a clear message to the world about India’s commitment to peace and harmony, but we didn’t get the desired outcome,” he said in the over three-hour podcast released on Sunday.
The Prime Minister called out Pakistan’s long-standing role in fostering terrorism, emphasising that the world was no longer in doubt about where the roots of terror lie.
Modi said that time and again, Pakistan has emerged as the epicentre of terror, causing immense suffering not just to India but to the entire world.
Referring to the freedom struggle, Modi said everyone from what is now known as Pakistan and India fought “side by side, shoulder to shoulder”.
“And the nation was eagerly waiting to celebrate the freedom, the joy of Independence. Now, we could have a lengthy discussion on what led to the events that unfolded. But the fact remains that the policymakers of the time agreed to India’s partition,” Modi said.
“And they agreed to the Muslim side’s demand of carving out a separate nation. With hearts weighed down by grief and silent tears, Indians embraced this painful reality,” the prime minister said.
“After getting their own way, we expected them to live and let live. And yet, they chose not to foster a harmonious coexistence. Time and again they decided to be at odds with India. They have waged a proxy war against us,” Modi said.
He said Pakistan’s behaviour should not be mistaken for ideology.
“What kind of ideology thrives on bloodshed and the export of terror? And we are not the sole victims of this menace. Wherever terror strikes in the world, the trail somehow leads to Pakistan. Let’s take the September 11 attacks for example,” PM Modi said, referring to how Osama bin Laden was found hiding in a house in Pakistan.
Guests on Fridman’s podcast include Donald Trump, Volodymyr Zelenskyy, SpaceX founder Elon Musk, American businessman Jeff Bezos and Meta CEO Mark Zuckerberg.
Despite past tensions with China, Modi favoured dialogue over discord and said differences between India and China were natural but stronger cooperation was in the interests of the two neighbours and for global stability.
Modi said India and China were working to restore the conditions along the borders as they were before the clashes along the Line of Actual Control in 2020, the first since 1975 that resulted in deaths of security personnel on both sides.
“However, after my recent meeting with President Xi, we have seen a return to normalcy at the border. We are now working to restore conditions to how they were before 2020,” Modi said referring to his meeting with Chinese President Xi Jinping in October last year.
“Slowly but surely, trust, enthusiasm, and energy should return. But of course, it will take some time, as there has been a five-year gap,” the prime minister said.
Modi said cooperation between India and China isn’t just beneficial for the two nations, but also essential for global stability and prosperity.
“Since the 21st century is Asia’s century, we want India and China to compete in a healthy and natural way. Competition is not a bad thing, but it should never turn into conflict,” he said.
Modi said the relationship between India and China isn’t something new as both nations have ancient cultures and civilizations.
“Even in the modern world, they play a significant role. If you look at historical records, for centuries, India and China have learned from each other,” he said.
“Together, they have always contributed to the global good in some way. Old records suggest that at one point India and China alone accounted for more than 50 per cent of the world’s GDP. That’s how massive India’s contribution was. And I believe our ties have been extremely strong, with deep cultural connections,” Modi said.
During his over three-hour interaction, the prime minister said there was no real history of conflict between India and China if one looked back over centuries.
“It has always been about learning from each other and understanding one another. At one time, Buddhism had a profound influence in China, and that philosophy originated in India,” Modi said.
“In the future too our relationship should remain just as strong and continue to grow. Differences are natural. When two neighbouring countries exist, occasional disagreements are bound to happen,” he said.
Even within a family, not everything is always perfect, he said, adding “but our effort is to ensure that these differences don’t turn into disputes”.
“That is why we actively work towards dialogue. Instead of discord, we stress on dialogue, because only through dialogue can we build a stable cooperative relationship that serves the best interests of both nations,” Modi said.
Prime Minister Narendra Modi said he shares a bond of mutual trust with US President Donald Trump and they connect well because they believe in putting their respective national interests above everything else.
Modi hailed Trump as a man of courage, who took his own decisions, was unwaveringly dedicated to the United States and the same spirit was on display when he was shot at by a gunman on the election campaign trail last year.
The prime minister said President Trump appeared far more prepared than before in his second term.
“He has a clear roadmap in his mind with well-defined steps, each one designed to lead him toward his goals,” Modi said on Trump’s second term as President.
The prime minister said he had the chance to meet members of Trump’s team during his recent visit to the US.
“I truly believe he has put together a strong, capable group. And with such a strong team, I feel they are fully capable of implementing President Trump’s vision,” Modi said.
He recalled his meetings with Vice President J D Vance, Director of National Intelligence Tulsi Gabbard, Vivek Ramaswamy and Elon Musk.
The prime minster recalled the ‘Howdy Modi’ community event at the packed NRG Stadium in Houston in September 2019 and how Trump listened to his speech by sitting among the audience.
“Now, that’s his humility. The President of the United States sitting in the audience while I spoke from the stage, that was a remarkable gesture on his part,” Modi said.
The prime minister also recalled how the US security detail went into a tizzy when he casually asked Trump to take a round of the packed stadium to greet the audience and he had agreed without hesitation.
“His entire security detail was thrown off guard, but for me that moment was truly touching. It showed me that this man had courage. He makes his own decisions, but also he trusted me and my lead in that moment enough to have walked with me into the crowd,” he said.
“It was that sense of mutual trust, a strong bond between us that I truly witnessed on that day. And the way I saw President Trump that day walking into a crowd of thousands without even asking security, it was truly amazing,” the prime minister said.
Modi said he saw the same resilient and determined Trump when he was shot at during the US election campaign.
“Even after being shot, he remained unwaveringly dedicated to America. His life was for his nation. This showed his America First spirit, just as I believe in nation first ‘? India first,” the prime minister said.
“I stand for India first and that’s why we connect so well. These are the things that truly resonate,” Modi said.
The prime minister said politicians across the world get so much media coverage that people mostly perceive them through its lens.
“People rarely get the chance to truly meet or personally know one another and perhaps third-party intervention is the real cause of tensions,” Modi said.
Modi said the discourse around the 2002 post-Godhra riots in Gujarat was an attempt to create a false narrative and his political opponents in power at the Centre wanted him to be punished but the courts cleared his name.
Modi said the perception that the 2002 riots were the biggest riots ever in Gujarat was an attempt to push misinformation.
“If you review the data from before 2002, you will see that Gujarat faced frequent riots. Curfews were constantly being imposed somewhere. Communal violence would erupt over trivial issues such as kite flying contests or even bicycle collisions,” Modi said.
The prime minister said the riots in Gujarat in 1969 lasted for more than six months and that was an era when he was nowhere on the political horizon.
Modi said the Godhra train burning incident took place barely three days after he was elected as a legislator of the Gujarat Assembly.
“It was a tragedy of unimaginable magnitude, people were burned alive. You can imagine, against the backdrop of incidents like the Kandahar hijacking, the attack on parliament, or even 9/11, and then to have so many people killed and burned alive, you can imagine how tense and volatile the situation was,” he said.
“Nothing should happen, we also wish so. Everyone would wish there should be peace,” the prime minister said during the podcast released on Sunday.
Modi, who was the Gujarat chief minister at that time, said the big incident at Godhra was the sparking point and violence took place. He said that a fake narrative was spread regarding the Godhra case.
“But, the courts investigated the matter thoroughly and found us completely innocent. Those who were truly responsible have faced justice from the courts,” he said.
The prime minister said his political opponents were in power at the Centre when the violence took place and they were keen to see him punished over the allegations.
“At that time, our political opponents were in power, and naturally they wanted all allegations against us to stick. They wanted to see us punished. Despite their relentless efforts, the judiciary analysed the situation meticulously twice and ultimately found us completely innocent,” Modi said.
Modi said that he feels blessed to have learnt life’s values from a “sacred” organisation like the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh, lauding it for working since 1925 to inspire people to dedicate themselves to the country.
Modi said the RSS gave him the purpose of his life, noting that its different affiliates are involved in numerous fields and with every section of society.
A former RSS ‘pracharak’ himself before moving over to the BJP, Modi said he was drawn to the Hindutva organisation at a young age as he was touched deeply by patriotic songs sung at its ‘shakha’ near his home in Gujarat.
Whatever one does, one should work for the country, he said, speaking of the RSS’ philosophy. “I have not heard if there is any voluntary organisation as big as the RSS.”
The RSS teaches that the country is supreme and serving people is like serving God, he said. “I feel blessed to have got values from such a sacred organisation,” he said.
Recalling his early life spent in extreme poverty, Modi said he picked up life’s lessons at his father’s tea shop and from his mother who treated children with home remedies, imbibing in him the spirit of service at a young age.
Modi shared about his childhood spent in a small home with no windows where his parents, siblings, uncles, aunts and grandparents lived.
“My early life was spent in extreme poverty, but we never really felt the burden of poverty,” he said, reminiscing how his father worked tirelessly, late into the night and his mother ensured that the children never felt the struggles of the circumstances.
“But despite everything, these challenging circumstances of living in scarcity never left a mark on our minds,” the prime minister said.
Modi said he was not aware when, but the habit of dressing neatly has been there since childhood and cited the example of his white canvas shoes, as a schoolgoing child, to illustrate the point.
The prime minister recalled that his uncle got him a pair of white canvas shoes after finding that he went to school barefoot.
Having received the shoes, Modi’s next worry was how to keep them clean.
“In the evening, after school was over, I would stay back for a while. I would go from classroom to classroom, collecting leftover pieces of chalk that the teachers had discarded. I would take the pieces of chalk home, soak them in water, mix them into a paste, and polish my canvas shoes with it, making them bright white again,” he said.
“For me, those shoes were a treasured possession, a symbol of great wealth. And I don’t exactly know why, but from childhood, our mother was extremely particular about cleanliness. Perhaps that’s where we inherited that habit too,” Modi said.
The prime minister said his mother possessed knowledge of traditional remedies and healing practices, and would treat children with these home remedies. Modi said he never feels lonely as God is always with him.
Modi also shared influences of Swami Vivekananda and Mahatma Gandhi on his life.
He also shared anecdotes from his time at Ramakrishna Paramahansa Ashram and his bond with Swami Atmasthananda.
When asked about being lonely, Modi said, “I never feel alone. I believe in the one plus one theory — one is Modi and other is the divine. I am never truly alone because God is always with me.”
The prime minister added that for him, “Jan Seva hi Prabhu Seva hai” (service to mankind is service to God). He has the support of the divine and 140 crore Indians.
During the podcast, Lex Fridman, US-based popular podcaster and computer scientist, recited the Gayatri Mantra and turned to Modi to ensure his pronunciation was correct.
In response, the prime minister recited the mantra himself, sharing its deeper significance.
Gayatri Mantra is deeply rooted in Surya Upasana and carries a profound spiritual essence. Every mantra is not just a set of words but has a scientific connection, reflecting different aspects of life and the universe,” Modi said.
He emphasized that ancient Indian traditions seamlessly blend spirituality and science, offering timeless wisdom to humanity.
The prime minister shared that during his childhood, he frequently visited the village library, where he read about Swami Vivekananda, whose teachings left a profound impact on his life.
“From Vivekananda, I learned that true fulfilment comes not from personal achievements but from selfless service to others,” he said.
Modi narrated a story from Swami Vivekananda’s life where he goes and asks Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa ji that his mother is ill and he needs help.
“To this Paramahamsa ji advised him to go to Devi Kali and ask for help. This incident made Vivekananda ji realise that how can he ask something from the divine who has already given everything to the world, realizing that serving humanity is the highest form of devotion to the divine,” he said.
He recalled his time at the Ramakrishna Paramahamsa Ashram, where he came in contact with saints and received immense love from them.
“I developed a deep bond with Swami Atmasthananda, who became a guiding force in my life. Swami Atmasthananda advised me that his true purpose was to serve people and work for the welfare of society,” he said. (PTI)
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